The Sun Also Rises

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The Sun Also Rises Empty The Sun Also Rises

Post  ExtraCookie on Fri May 06, 2011 9:51 pm

Obviously, there's lots more I can (and probably will) say about this ep., however, since you two are so insistent, here's a thought concerning Damon. WHOM I ADORE, don't forget that! heart

First, here's a mental exercise you need to perform to the best of your abilities. It may be hard, but you must do so. Imagine there's no such character as Damon. That's right, he never existed. T.V.D. never existed. I'll give you some time. --------------------------------------- Ready? OK. Now. Imagine you are in love with someone and that someone is in love with you. You and that someone mean the world to each other. You have expressed your singularly devoted love to HIM and only HIM in NO uncertain terms several times. You two are happy with each other, happier than you've ever been. Now imagine this person has a brother. This brother has made it clear over and over that he's in love with you. You like the guy. A lot. He's charming and sexy. He's broken & damaged, but has a good heart. But you are NOT in love with him. You are in love with his BROTHER. His BROTHER is all you want. The one you've imagined a future with. The one you can always count on to consider YOUR feelings, YOUR desires, YOUR needs, YOUR opinions. Even if he may not like YOUR choices, he lets and helps you have them. He's a caring guy, so much so that he takes care of the people YOU love, too, because he knows that you wouldn't want to live without them. (His brother, on the other hand, once murdered your brother [who really liked the guy in a big-brother way!] because he was upset! Luckily, doctors were able to revive him, but still . . . yeah.) Yet, through all of this, his brother--an overall great--if damaged & partially insane--guy keeps on and on hitting on you. He's hung up on you and isn't even trying to find someone else. Oh, he screws around here and there, gets women in his life to use then discard, but he never tries for an actual love, a real relationship, because he wants YOU. Even though you've made it very clear you do NOT want him, he keeps it up. What do you think of this brother? Be brutally honest and remember--no character named Damon or show called T.V.D. has ever existed.

Honestly, what I think of that brother is that he's pathetic. I think it's sad because he's lovely and has the potential to find someone who's perfect for him that he could have a wonderful life with, but he doesn't love himself or think enough of himself to see it. He's convinced he should have his brother's woman. It's pathetic and I think he needs to get some self-esteem, maturity and learn to love himself. The world is chock full of women and he's more able to get them than most guys are. There are probably many women out there who would be absolutely perfect for him. Who would not only thoroughly adore him, but WANT him, EXACTLY as-is. Who are perfectly fine with the way he is and the choices he makes. Who don't feel the need to reprimand him for or shed tears over the horrible mistakes he makes. Who are NOT in love with SOMEONE else, therefore forcing him into the position of being a cad because he's hitting on them.

I love Damon and in so many ways, he's so super cool, but this weakness of his, this deal of latching onto one woman (his brother's, at that!) and blinding himself to all other females in the world is pathetic and sad and weak. Sad enough to do it once, but twice? After nearly 2 lifetimes during which to learn from his mistake?! Unfortunately, I highly doubt they'll ever fix that about him. It's clear this is the aspect of him they're intending to always utilize to draw tears from him and from us for his tears. I wish he were a stronger character. He has living down so very well in all other aspects, yet, here, he fails in a shameful way. I wish he could see his potential, how amazing he is and how he shouldn't have to fixate upon ONE woman, a woman who has firmly expressed her true, loyal love for his BROTHER and move on to find the right person for him. It undermines how cool he could be for me. Of course, I guess those fixated on Delena moreso than the importance of great characters and an overall great story can't really see this. That's all.

EDITED TO ADD: I want to change "hitting on" to "making obvious expressions of romantic love for." I don't know if it's my social inexperience or a difference in foreigner English and U.S. English or both at fault here, but I always take "hitting on" to mean any time anyone's expressing romantic and/or sexual desire for someone, whether it's a direct, sexual come-on or some obvious act/expression of romantic love and/or sexual desire (like dancing all sexy with someone, telling someone's boyfriend that you want their girlfriend and going to amazing lengths to save someone's life and prefacing it by saying, "I can't lose you.") There was confusion on this between helps and I, so I wanted to clarify.

Also, this is a TV show, these characters are fiction. I'm passionate about my philosophies and views, but I don't intend to hurt any real person's feelings nor offend them by expressing them and I apologize if I have. Please don't take them personally!

One more thing: I can't help but feel many people are unrealistic when they consider Damon's personality and actions. In other words, if someone they actually knew actually behaved in these ways I see as negative, I believe they'd think they are too, but, because Damon's hot and a vampire, he gets a pass. If someone's looking through that sort of lens, then there's no point in me expressing my views to them. Though I may accidentally slip here and there, I don't tend or aim to look with that lens. I think I make that clear. As much as I adore the Winchesters, for example, I admit when I think they're wrong or have flaws too. I feel like we are meant to look at these things realistically. Otherwise, where is our point of reference for what we feel for these people and how we judge them? Who's hottest = who's right doesn't work for me. So I do think of them realistically, mostly. There are certain unreal factors here and there that have to be taken into account, but they don't cover every single action taken by these characters. To me, wrong is wrong and right is right and gray areas are gray areas. Damon's fucking awesome, no doubt. I've got it bad for the guy. I actually have excused (or at least forgiven) a lot of things he's done and I have no doubt I will continue to. I also look at the total picture of his life (that we have so far) and deem him an overall lovely person, despite his MISTAKES (yes, he makes them!). However, I do relate his (and all other fictional characters') actions to reality and judge him accordingly. I may be wrong, but I do think that if you were in Elena's shoes (only this was strictly YOU) and the brother of the man you were head-over-heels in love with kept on expressing his romantic/sexual feelings for you, making things frustrating and awkward for you and your man OR if your sister kept on making such expressions for the man you are in love with and who is in love with you, you would NOT be OK with it. And that, if you really do what I ask above (pretend we're not talking about Damon or T.V.D. cuz they don't exist) you'd most likely agree that that guy is pathetic. Pathetic doesn't mean a bad person, stupid, etc. It means that this particular personality trait is pathetic. *Whew!*
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The Sun Also Rises Empty Re: The Sun Also Rises

Post  helps on Sat May 07, 2011 10:21 am

First of all, I see your point of view, but yep as you already know, I disagree.

The first thing - you can't take things out of context and say "imagine that this is real life situation". In real life situation some things that happened on TVD, would never happen.

Even though you've made it very clear you do NOT want him, he keeps it up. What do you think of this brother?
She didn't make anything clear, never really said out loud what she feels about Damon. Second, I still don't think he keeps hitting or whatever else. For me his expressing of care for her was like saying last-good bye, because at that moment he was thinking she just want to sacrifice herself. Plus, yep, he was right that Elijah couldn't be trusted, so he was mad and upset that she and Stefan put their trust in him. Anyways, I don't think there were many situations where Damon showed his love to ELena in an appropriate way. Yep, by this time, she knows that he cares a lot, perhaps more than any friend would, but it's not like he'd be creeping around, stalking her, texting her or seducing her.... After a long time, whne he thought she might die, he expressed his concern and he told her he needs her. Her response was he won't loose her. It doesn't sound like someone who'd felt bothered or stalked.

Though, totally different thing is Stefan. I understand why it'd piss him off, why he'd feel mad at Damon. Especially because with Stefan, he admitted he has feelings for Elena. THOUGH, it was once again only to hurt Stefan. Sadly, that is one of Damon's flaws I'm aware of - the fact that once he feels hurt or vulnerable, he kicks back in the worst possible ways.... If it's only with words (that surely hurt Stefan) or if it's with his actions. THAT is IMO, something that he needs to work on. If something doesn't goes his way, he should chill out instead of acting like spoiled kid. Still, it doesn't have much to do with his "hitting" or expressing his feelings for Elena. I simply don't think he'd be expressing anything to Elena in a bad pathetic way - actually he hasn't been expressing his feelings to her since he compelled her (until this "i cant loose you" which btw can be interpreted by Elena like he can't loose an only friend). With Stefan, it's worse, but on the other side, I think Stefan has been very aware of Damon's "sympathy" for Elena and it's NO surprise. It was like an elephant in the closet. They both knew, but no one talked about it. I admit as much as I'm sorry for Stefan (and Damon,too), I'm not being too concerned, because I have faith that writers won't make Delena happen until Stelena is over. I wouldn't want Damon to steal his brother's girl (even if it was of course Elena's decision as well), because I enjoy brothers when they co-operate. And it's obvious Damon is always there to save Stefan and vice versa. They love each other, so Damon's tortured by loving a "wrong" person, but as you know I don't think it's so easy to let it go when you love someone so much. It's a recent thing and he's not in the state of letting go.....

One thing I like is what writers said - that Stefan already has been there, that he's been on this journey and he's got where he is now, while Damon is still on his way, he's having hard time, but he's trying to get there,too, he's trying to be better man and of course he's struggling with his humanity and all that's happening along the way.... it's a slow progress, but i believe one day he'll get there, he'll not only be awesome vamp, he's gonna be also mature, reliable person.

I may be wrong, but I do think that if you were in Elena's shoes (only this was strictly YOU) and the brother of the man you were head-over-heels in love with kept on expressing his romantic/sexual feelings for you, making things frustrating and awkward for you and your man OR if your sister kept on making such expressions for the man you are in love with and who is in love with you, you would NOT be OK with it.

But again, this is where i disagree..... Damon's nice to Elena, which is something she should treasure, because as we know, it's very rare that he treats someone with such a respect and care. I don't agree about KEEPS expressing.... He did it like twice (i mean recently), once he compelled her and this time, it was when he thought she might die and only thing he said was "I cant loose you..... something"... etc etc. She came into his room, he wasn't stalking her around. He only expressed care, so I don't really see this like any flaw. Stefan also knows that Elena cares about Damon,too. It's no big deal unless Damon tells her he loves or if he kissed her. (which i know will happen, but again - hallucinations). So overall, if it was the way you suggest it, i'd probably be bothered, but their threesome is a lot more complex and complicated
Laughing Laughing

I'll add more thoughts on epi later.

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