Caged Heat
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Caged Heat
Calena Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:37 pm
No one wants to write about this one? 
Overall I liked this ep very much.
Atta-Sam!!!!! Oh, I know, y'all thought what's evil Sam doing now when he bit his wrist. But wasn't that supercool!
See, I have been saying that all along, Sam's Soul might not have a very good time in the cage, and it might be problematic when he gets it back. On the other hand, from Dean's POV, what he has now is not Sam anyway, so it figures that he wants the sould back. PLUS if the sould wouldn't be retrieved, it will just continue suffering. So that's not nice for the soul either. From the soul's POV it's probably better to be retrieved and suffer on earth from the aftermath of the torture than keep being tortured.
And I'm 100% convinced Sam's Soul is really suffering. One possible scenario is that Michael and Lucifer are too busy to be at each others' throats to torture Sam's Soul. Maybe the cage is big enough for Sam to hide from them, so that they are not reminded of his prescence and keep fighting each other.
OR all 3 of them bond over being in the same situation. Sam's Soul might even do family therapy with the 2 angelic brothers.
Of course it also figures that Soulless Sam doesn't want it back under these circumstances. Soulless Sam feels fine, so why should he want it back?
Crowley, you will be missed tremendously, but I thank the show for giving us as much Crowley as they did this season. That's why the demon-bone-burning thing is weak. Too easy to kill even high level demons now. But cool how Castiel took charge and cut off all further arguing.
Also I'm sorry it's not going well for Castiel. But what was up with kissing Meg? I'm confused. Why would he kiss Meg?
Nooooooooooooo! Now we just got the brothers back together and they're ripping them apart again? Not good!
Also I never trusted Samuel. Maybe it'll turn out he has good intentions after all, but I don't think so.
Overall I liked this ep very much.
Atta-Sam!!!!! Oh, I know, y'all thought what's evil Sam doing now when he bit his wrist. But wasn't that supercool!
See, I have been saying that all along, Sam's Soul might not have a very good time in the cage, and it might be problematic when he gets it back. On the other hand, from Dean's POV, what he has now is not Sam anyway, so it figures that he wants the sould back. PLUS if the sould wouldn't be retrieved, it will just continue suffering. So that's not nice for the soul either. From the soul's POV it's probably better to be retrieved and suffer on earth from the aftermath of the torture than keep being tortured.
And I'm 100% convinced Sam's Soul is really suffering. One possible scenario is that Michael and Lucifer are too busy to be at each others' throats to torture Sam's Soul. Maybe the cage is big enough for Sam to hide from them, so that they are not reminded of his prescence and keep fighting each other.
OR all 3 of them bond over being in the same situation. Sam's Soul might even do family therapy with the 2 angelic brothers.
Of course it also figures that Soulless Sam doesn't want it back under these circumstances. Soulless Sam feels fine, so why should he want it back?
Crowley, you will be missed tremendously, but I thank the show for giving us as much Crowley as they did this season. That's why the demon-bone-burning thing is weak. Too easy to kill even high level demons now. But cool how Castiel took charge and cut off all further arguing.
Also I'm sorry it's not going well for Castiel. But what was up with kissing Meg? I'm confused. Why would he kiss Meg?
Nooooooooooooo! Now we just got the brothers back together and they're ripping them apart again? Not good!
Also I never trusted Samuel. Maybe it'll turn out he has good intentions after all, but I don't think so.
Calena- in the trunk of the Impala
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Re: Caged Heat
ExtraCookie Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:01 am
Here I am, last-minute posting, but that's generally best for readers, as it means I'll most likely not ramble as much; especially this time, as I should already be in bed.
I liked this one except for the couple of awkward Cas scenes (porn and kissing Meg), and, upon second viewing, I was more OK with them. I feel the show screws up with his innocence/ignorance at times. It has seemed most of the time that the angel has at least basic knowledge of humans, just not lots of casual, intimiate, up-to-date knowledge. It seems to me he'd know enough about basic human sexuality to know that watching porn with guys in the room would be uncool. Maybe angel sex is VEEERY different from human sex, so, therefore, he really couldn't see the prob. there. I'll try to give them this one. I just really hated the whole "boner" bit it was just so awkward and made Cas seem retarded or something; it just wasn't dignified. It felt like whoopee-cushion territory, and you know how I hate that. I hate the kissing Meg scene (aside from the obvious visual appeal) too, but, on further analysis, I can give them this one, too. I can imagine it as her causing him to feel again what the porn did and, even though the timing sucked ass and the thing he was kissing was disgusting, maybe he just had a WTF moment (everything's going tits-up [woo, Brit-speak!] right now, I'm losing the heavenly war, I can't be of much help to my friends, I'm lonely, hell, why not let go for a moment and do something that feels good? Very human of him, no?) and went for it. Maybe, in that moment, he was able to focus on her container's looks rather than her actual ones. I wish they hadn't written it, though. Of course, Misha performed the scenes well, as he has all other ones.
Cas OWNED my heart in this one. God, he's so perfectly perfect. Instead of simply doing what Dean thinks he wants, he bothered to speak up for Sammy because HE wants him to survive. Dean's willing to risk Sam's continued suffering/destruction, CAS wasn't. Awwww. Calena, I'm not quite sure what to think about this situation. On one hand, I think you're right; surely, however bad things will be when Sam's "mutilated" soul gets shoved back into his gullet, it must be better than what's going on with him in the cage right now. However, we don't know that for sure. Maybe--just maybe--Cas is wrong about Mike and Mike has come to his damned senses and begun behaving like a good angel rather than an evil one like his brother and has been protecting Sammy down there; maybe in some way that will wear off when he gets back into his body and he'll feel all he didn't feel while he was there. Or something. Or maybe, due to his powers, Sammy has some equal footing down there and has been able to hold his own; we just don't know. The thing is, Cas should surely know better than any human does, so if HE doesn't think it's a good idea, surely it isn't, unless they're going to add another thing to the little list of things that make Cas look less informed than an angel should be. I also loved Cas's "I wouldn't know where to start" response to Dean telling him (!! FFS, I wish the guy would try ASKING favors of the angel rather than giving him orders for a change! YES, I know Cas is a grunt angel used to taking orders and looks up to Dean and is, therefore, probably somewhat more comfortable that way for the most part, but it's still rude and no way to treat a friend. Especially one who has done so much--including dying twice--for you. If anyone outside of his family [which includes Bobby] has done anything to deserve Dean's respect and kindness, it's Cas!) he'd fix him if he was broken. To me, it was Cas speak for "Duh, of course I'd try my best to fix him; I'm saying I don't think I can!" I need Cas to be real and to date me.
Oh, and by the way, in case you didn't catch it on twitter, I offically hate "Sam" now. Talking to Cas that way. I wanted to punch him.
I adored Cas's properly angelic response, however. He simply put Sam in his place, but didn't get bent out of shape, then I think his response turned to sympathy. He looked into his eyes, and remembered that it wasn't really Sammy talking to him and that he needs help. Soulless though he is, it grabbed me when "Sam" pointed out that it's Cas's help in particular that he needs. If I have my way, Cas is gonna grip him tight and raise him from perdition too. I doubt I'll get my way, but that would be awesome. Maybe he and Sammy's bond would become "more profound." 
What I can't explain is why Cas couldn't take care of those hell hounds. Really? He's an angel. They're just hell hounds. Normal (Meg-level) demons are terrified of angels, yet they can't even take out hell hounds? I don't even know what happened there. It was stupid.
I understand Samuel grieving his daughter and not thinking straight. After all, all 3 of our Winchesters did the same thing. Well, actually, when it comes to John, I'm not sure what else he could've done. I mean, OK, at least back in the day, I'd have thought John could've taken out Azazel. I don't know what the hell to think now, as the show has trashed him down to nothing. In any case, it turned out to be the right move, Dean DID take him out and saved his brother. However, you'd think he'd at least be smart enough to listen to Dean. Dean told him they'd been there and done that and that it was a horrible idea. He wouldn't even listen? I haven't been fond of Samuel and I've wanted him gone, but I didn't want it to happen like this. How awful that his own grandson is going to take him down. I love Dean, I get what he's feeling, but I just don't think that's the answer. It is typical Dean, however.
Let's back up. Speaking of John, Dean did it again: slipped the guy a compliment. His remark to Samuel about actually putting family first. Is it happening? Is Dean slowly thawing towards the guy and remembering/realizing all over again why he used to love him & look up to him in the first place? Or are the writers just playing with my heart?
Did you notice? Cas has now had his first official Winchester Impala Talk! (That is the first time, right?) WOO! I felt awful for him, he was clearly miserable. I'm SO glad Dean finally thanked him for his help and offered to help him. An apology for the shitty way he's been treating him would've made it perfect, but it was good enough to get Dean off my shit list for now.
I guess we have to deal with "Sam" until after the holidays. DAMN! HATE "Sam!" For me, soulless Sam just didn't turn out to be a wise idea.
OK, now I have to write a T.V.D. post. I should be in bed! I have to make sure to get up and push myself into moving later today, cuz I have to take Possum to the vet (something weird's going on with his right eye).
I liked this one except for the couple of awkward Cas scenes (porn and kissing Meg), and, upon second viewing, I was more OK with them. I feel the show screws up with his innocence/ignorance at times. It has seemed most of the time that the angel has at least basic knowledge of humans, just not lots of casual, intimiate, up-to-date knowledge. It seems to me he'd know enough about basic human sexuality to know that watching porn with guys in the room would be uncool. Maybe angel sex is VEEERY different from human sex, so, therefore, he really couldn't see the prob. there. I'll try to give them this one. I just really hated the whole "boner" bit it was just so awkward and made Cas seem retarded or something; it just wasn't dignified. It felt like whoopee-cushion territory, and you know how I hate that. I hate the kissing Meg scene (aside from the obvious visual appeal) too, but, on further analysis, I can give them this one, too. I can imagine it as her causing him to feel again what the porn did and, even though the timing sucked ass and the thing he was kissing was disgusting, maybe he just had a WTF moment (everything's going tits-up [woo, Brit-speak!] right now, I'm losing the heavenly war, I can't be of much help to my friends, I'm lonely, hell, why not let go for a moment and do something that feels good? Very human of him, no?) and went for it. Maybe, in that moment, he was able to focus on her container's looks rather than her actual ones. I wish they hadn't written it, though. Of course, Misha performed the scenes well, as he has all other ones.
Cas OWNED my heart in this one. God, he's so perfectly perfect. Instead of simply doing what Dean thinks he wants, he bothered to speak up for Sammy because HE wants him to survive. Dean's willing to risk Sam's continued suffering/destruction, CAS wasn't. Awwww. Calena, I'm not quite sure what to think about this situation. On one hand, I think you're right; surely, however bad things will be when Sam's "mutilated" soul gets shoved back into his gullet, it must be better than what's going on with him in the cage right now. However, we don't know that for sure. Maybe--just maybe--Cas is wrong about Mike and Mike has come to his damned senses and begun behaving like a good angel rather than an evil one like his brother and has been protecting Sammy down there; maybe in some way that will wear off when he gets back into his body and he'll feel all he didn't feel while he was there. Or something. Or maybe, due to his powers, Sammy has some equal footing down there and has been able to hold his own; we just don't know. The thing is, Cas should surely know better than any human does, so if HE doesn't think it's a good idea, surely it isn't, unless they're going to add another thing to the little list of things that make Cas look less informed than an angel should be. I also loved Cas's "I wouldn't know where to start" response to Dean telling him (!! FFS, I wish the guy would try ASKING favors of the angel rather than giving him orders for a change! YES, I know Cas is a grunt angel used to taking orders and looks up to Dean and is, therefore, probably somewhat more comfortable that way for the most part, but it's still rude and no way to treat a friend. Especially one who has done so much--including dying twice--for you. If anyone outside of his family [which includes Bobby] has done anything to deserve Dean's respect and kindness, it's Cas!) he'd fix him if he was broken. To me, it was Cas speak for "Duh, of course I'd try my best to fix him; I'm saying I don't think I can!" I need Cas to be real and to date me.
Oh, and by the way, in case you didn't catch it on twitter, I offically hate "Sam" now. Talking to Cas that way. I wanted to punch him.
I adored Cas's properly angelic response, however. He simply put Sam in his place, but didn't get bent out of shape, then I think his response turned to sympathy. He looked into his eyes, and remembered that it wasn't really Sammy talking to him and that he needs help. Soulless though he is, it grabbed me when "Sam" pointed out that it's Cas's help in particular that he needs. If I have my way, Cas is gonna grip him tight and raise him from perdition too. I doubt I'll get my way, but that would be awesome. Maybe he and Sammy's bond would become "more profound." What I can't explain is why Cas couldn't take care of those hell hounds. Really? He's an angel. They're just hell hounds. Normal (Meg-level) demons are terrified of angels, yet they can't even take out hell hounds? I don't even know what happened there. It was stupid.
I understand Samuel grieving his daughter and not thinking straight. After all, all 3 of our Winchesters did the same thing. Well, actually, when it comes to John, I'm not sure what else he could've done. I mean, OK, at least back in the day, I'd have thought John could've taken out Azazel. I don't know what the hell to think now, as the show has trashed him down to nothing. In any case, it turned out to be the right move, Dean DID take him out and saved his brother. However, you'd think he'd at least be smart enough to listen to Dean. Dean told him they'd been there and done that and that it was a horrible idea. He wouldn't even listen? I haven't been fond of Samuel and I've wanted him gone, but I didn't want it to happen like this. How awful that his own grandson is going to take him down. I love Dean, I get what he's feeling, but I just don't think that's the answer. It is typical Dean, however.
Let's back up. Speaking of John, Dean did it again: slipped the guy a compliment. His remark to Samuel about actually putting family first. Is it happening? Is Dean slowly thawing towards the guy and remembering/realizing all over again why he used to love him & look up to him in the first place? Or are the writers just playing with my heart?
Did you notice? Cas has now had his first official Winchester Impala Talk! (That is the first time, right?) WOO! I felt awful for him, he was clearly miserable. I'm SO glad Dean finally thanked him for his help and offered to help him. An apology for the shitty way he's been treating him would've made it perfect, but it was good enough to get Dean off my shit list for now.
I guess we have to deal with "Sam" until after the holidays. DAMN! HATE "Sam!" For me, soulless Sam just didn't turn out to be a wise idea.
OK, now I have to write a T.V.D. post. I should be in bed! I have to make sure to get up and push myself into moving later today, cuz I have to take Possum to the vet (something weird's going on with his right eye).
Last edited by ExtraCookie on Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:00 am; edited 1 time in total
ExtraCookie- Damon's midnight snack
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Re: Caged Heat
Calena Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:10 am
Regarding Soulless Sam, I don't think it was a wise idea either, because there is so much "technical" stuff about being soulless that's confusing and I'm afraid that the writer's haven't thought that through. However I enjoy Soulless Sam tremendously (now that he has quit pretending). He's supercool and kick-ass. My guess is, the writers loved S4 Sam and needed another way to make Sam "evil" and this is what they came up with.
Hm, I just got an idea: If Castiel won his war up in heaven, as King of Heaven it wouldn't be that hard for him to retrieve Sam's soul (if retrieving it is a good idea is still up for debate of course). So maybe where it's all headed is that the Brothers help Cas win, then Cas can get Sam's soul back.
(I haven't seen yesterday's ep yet, btw)
I wonder if Sam died now, where would he go? To hell or to purgatory?
Also did I tell you about the BuddyTV theory that Crowley got himself killed on purpose because he wanted to go to purgatory? That's not a good theory, imo, because a) demons have souls, right? Or rather demons ARE souls - of human who went to hell. So why would killing a demon send him to purgatory? And b) Crowley wouldn't be King of Hell in Purgatory, if he did go there after death, he'd just be one of many there. Right?
Creatures without souls however go to purgatory in the SPN verse (not in Catholicism, there every soul goes to purgatory where it's decided whether they go up or down. I have no clue if that's actually in the bible, though, or got tacked on by overimaginative preachers). Which means shapeshifters, vampires, etc. go there (sidenote: are werewolves soulless? Aren't they just cursed humans? Oh, I'm probably mixing SPN + VD up). And Sam would go there to. I wonder if it will happen that someone decides they need something from purgatory or whatever, and they could kill Sam to go there and get it.....
I don't think Dean will really kill Samuel. No way. He was just pissed.
If I have my way, Cas is gonna grip him tight and raise him from perdition too. I doubt I'll get my way, but that would be awesome. Maybe he and Sammy's bond would become "more profound." Very Happy
Hm, I just got an idea: If Castiel won his war up in heaven, as King of Heaven it wouldn't be that hard for him to retrieve Sam's soul (if retrieving it is a good idea is still up for debate of course). So maybe where it's all headed is that the Brothers help Cas win, then Cas can get Sam's soul back.
(I haven't seen yesterday's ep yet, btw)
I wonder if Sam died now, where would he go? To hell or to purgatory?
Also did I tell you about the BuddyTV theory that Crowley got himself killed on purpose because he wanted to go to purgatory? That's not a good theory, imo, because a) demons have souls, right? Or rather demons ARE souls - of human who went to hell. So why would killing a demon send him to purgatory? And b) Crowley wouldn't be King of Hell in Purgatory, if he did go there after death, he'd just be one of many there. Right?
Creatures without souls however go to purgatory in the SPN verse (not in Catholicism, there every soul goes to purgatory where it's decided whether they go up or down. I have no clue if that's actually in the bible, though, or got tacked on by overimaginative preachers). Which means shapeshifters, vampires, etc. go there (sidenote: are werewolves soulless? Aren't they just cursed humans? Oh, I'm probably mixing SPN + VD up). And Sam would go there to. I wonder if it will happen that someone decides they need something from purgatory or whatever, and they could kill Sam to go there and get it.....
I don't think Dean will really kill Samuel. No way. He was just pissed.
Very good point. Also didn't like the whole porn/kissing Meg thing. What the hell for? It was only very very mildly amusing.What I can't explain is why Cas couldn't take care of those hell hounds. Really? He's an angel. They're just hell hounds. Normal (Meg-level) demons are terrified of angels, yet they can't even take out hell hounds? I don't even know what happened there. It was stupid.
Calena- in the trunk of the Impala
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Re: Caged Heat
ExtraCookie Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:18 am
I like those bad-ass/amusing qualities of "Sam," but not enough to make me OK with him. The sadness/pain/shock/outrage of "Sam" was too painful and awful to be worth those qualities. If that was how he's always been, I'd be OK with it. But I'd never be OK with him being an asshole to his brother and dear friends and I couldn't bear the sweet, caring Sammy I knew being gone. It was sickening.
If Sam died, his body would've rotted. His soul was already in hell. So far, the show's not indicated we have more than one soul. Seeee? This is one of those complications of soullessness. WHAT was making his body function if he had no soul? WHAT makes one think or feel anything with no soul? Like I've bitched about before, "Sam" claimed not to feel anything, but the show SHOWED him obviously feeling lots of things! What it seemed to amount to was that he simply couldn't feel good things. Couldn't feel compassion, caring, personal responsibility, love, etc. Then again, if that were true, why was he even staying with Dean, hunting, blah blah? ILLOGICAL! Dumb idea. Glad it's over.
I guess the show hasn't specifically stated it, however, it would appear that werewolfism (new word? Deal with it!) is the same as vampirism: A contagious disease. Which is why I don't understand why it makes one's soul bound for purgatory. Weeeird. Mayyyybe (this is completely my own idea) if a vampire refrains from drinking from humans (like Lenore and friends) they can be eligible for heaven and hell. I don't know, and I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for an answer, are you?
I liked your Cas/Winchester trade off idea! I wish they'd used it!
As best I understand, there IS true death on this show. Angels, for instance, die. I think Crowley simply is no more. He's nowhere. He does not exist.
I'm 99% sure purgatory is a strictly Catholic thing.
I hope you're right about Dean killing Samuel. I mean, ?? It was cool seeing Dean give him what for, but if it truly comes down to him having to kill his own grandpa (esp. when, at the heart of it all, it's just a man making stupid mistakes out of love and grief . . . the same thing all Winchesters have done [again, maybe John did, maybe not]), that'll be tragic as hell. Maybe there'll be a scene where Dean gets his chance and almost does it but, at the last second, can't. I don't imagine a hearts-n-flowers make-up, but it'd be nice if they can at least just amicably keep away from each other. Samuel's not evil, he's just being one-track minded (like John) and (also like John), wow, has he been through a lot. I don't like him because of how he's treated our guys, but he's not a bad guy. If that made sense.
What the hell for? Exactly. The writers have made the mistake of going overly comic relief with Cas at times. It's cringeworthy every time they step over that line. At least that's the first ep. they've done that to him in this season. Let's hope it's the last.
If Sam died, his body would've rotted. His soul was already in hell. So far, the show's not indicated we have more than one soul. Seeee? This is one of those complications of soullessness. WHAT was making his body function if he had no soul? WHAT makes one think or feel anything with no soul? Like I've bitched about before, "Sam" claimed not to feel anything, but the show SHOWED him obviously feeling lots of things! What it seemed to amount to was that he simply couldn't feel good things. Couldn't feel compassion, caring, personal responsibility, love, etc. Then again, if that were true, why was he even staying with Dean, hunting, blah blah? ILLOGICAL! Dumb idea. Glad it's over.
I guess the show hasn't specifically stated it, however, it would appear that werewolfism (new word? Deal with it!) is the same as vampirism: A contagious disease. Which is why I don't understand why it makes one's soul bound for purgatory. Weeeird. Mayyyybe (this is completely my own idea) if a vampire refrains from drinking from humans (like Lenore and friends) they can be eligible for heaven and hell. I don't know, and I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for an answer, are you?
I liked your Cas/Winchester trade off idea! I wish they'd used it!
As best I understand, there IS true death on this show. Angels, for instance, die. I think Crowley simply is no more. He's nowhere. He does not exist.
I'm 99% sure purgatory is a strictly Catholic thing.
I hope you're right about Dean killing Samuel. I mean, ?? It was cool seeing Dean give him what for, but if it truly comes down to him having to kill his own grandpa (esp. when, at the heart of it all, it's just a man making stupid mistakes out of love and grief . . . the same thing all Winchesters have done [again, maybe John did, maybe not]), that'll be tragic as hell. Maybe there'll be a scene where Dean gets his chance and almost does it but, at the last second, can't. I don't imagine a hearts-n-flowers make-up, but it'd be nice if they can at least just amicably keep away from each other. Samuel's not evil, he's just being one-track minded (like John) and (also like John), wow, has he been through a lot. I don't like him because of how he's treated our guys, but he's not a bad guy. If that made sense.
What the hell for? Exactly. The writers have made the mistake of going overly comic relief with Cas at times. It's cringeworthy every time they step over that line. At least that's the first ep. they've done that to him in this season. Let's hope it's the last.
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